Michael Nesmith on The Monkees in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame as 2020 inductees are announced

1/15/2020

Billboard: Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Reveals Class of 2020

No! I don't think we belong in the R&R HOF. Never have --- and never will --- until the curators change their markers.

The way the HOF is set now --- and this may make some sad --- so I am a little sheepish to say --- that is, to say --- shy --- about raising the point that the HOF is not set up to recognize what the Monkees were/are and what they represent. Those metrics are not included anywhere that I can see in the of the HOF. Ergo --- The Monkees do not fit on the metric that exists there ---- IMO --- and so be it.

A better name we all might use, in fact, might be the "R&R HOF IMO". Then those things must be included which are in our own definition of R&R. And the R&R HOF might inch closer to its real purpose.

The great writers and singers of those songs are already in the HOF --- Lennon and McCartney. They are two of my heroes and have full rights to belong.

The Monkees were the creative output of a Television show. (What did he say?? --- Full Stop?? Yes, Full Stop.) ---

So here is the rub --- until there is an organization that recognizes what the Monkees were and are I will remain awardless as will all of those who worked on the show --- or the "property" as it was called. And I will surmise that The Monkees will NEVER be invited. They are too outside any box in which you or I may place them --- and so far no one has "trumped" that problem --- that "the R&R HOF" is its own thing --- in which the Monkees are not considered.

Not now -- or ever --- all fine with me.

Read more about The Monkees and the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in the archives of the Live Almanac

16 Comments

William Byron link

1/16/2020 18:36:13

THANK you. I hope (but know better) that this will close the discussion once and for all. What does it stem from? INSECURITY from Monkees fans. They think being in this fake hall of fame gives VALIDATION to their passion. The Monkees aren't even a real band and they're my FAVORITE band so who gives a f**k what Jann Wenner thinks? The Monkees are cooler BECAUSE of their lack of inclusion in this phony organization, not the other way around!

Peter Cunningham

1/17/2020 04:11:51

I agree with every thing mike says but if it was all based on the work after the monkees t v shows from headquaters to good times and more then they should be IN THE HALL OF FAME, just listen to the session tapes, also mike and micky with there solo work and still touring 50+ YEARS LATER( do not base this on a tv show base it on a life time of work) Then agian there are to many one hit wonders in there that have not lasted the test of time would true monkees fans want them in it.

David Cox

1/17/2020 09:46:20

Step One: Win the lottery

Step Two: Open up The Monkees Hall of Fame

Step Three: Take everyone listed in Andrew Sandoval's compendium of musicians credited for as much as breathing on a Monkees session and include them in The Monkees Hall of Fame

Step Four: Sell Beatle's CD's and memorabilia in the gift shop

Peter Denmark

1/20/2020 11:50:50

I agree with all but the last point. Why should your "Monkees Hall Of Fame" sell Beatles CDs and memorabilia? I bet there isn't a great deal of Monkees CDs and memorabilia sold at Beatles events.

1/20/2020 20:20:49

Well, it was intended as a bit of tongue cheek as The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame sells Monkee items in the gift shop. Also meant to recognize that it too would need to operate as a business for profit if it were to survive...

1/21/2020 07:07:41

Thanks David. I get your point now.

mary

1/17/2020 15:10:53

The RNR Hall is really a NothingBurger.

larry gonzalez

1/18/2020 19:23:48

I personally would love to see The Monkees in the R&RHoF (and Nez should also be in as a solo artist), but at least they have two Emmys and a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

david

1/19/2020 14:14:28

This discussion/argument is sooo tired... and Nez just doesn't get it.

The question of whether or not The Monkees were a "real" band is ridiculous - particularly where the RRHOF is concerned. The acts that have received the Wonka ticket are all over the map and there really is no clear delineation as to what the criteria for enshrinement is. It's simply the will/whim of a select group of individuals as to who gets invited to the party.

As to the issue that really matters - are The Monkees a band?

Of course they are.

The four were in the recording studio months before the TV show debuted. By the time the first episode aired, they had already recorded enough tracks to have the first album ready for release and half the second album. Mike and Peter had already contributed instrumentally (Peter on most of Mike's songs and Mike with the pedal-steel on "The Kind of Girl I Could Love.") In addition, they had all contributed their lead vocals, and their backing/harmony vocals on a number of tracks - including all of Mike's.

They had also played live on a few promotional junkets prior to the TV show airing and Clarksville was already moving up the charts BEFORE the show debuted.

By my way of thinking, they were a band BEFORE they were ever known as a TV property. Yes, they were cast and brought together for the TV show but, some 50+ years later, they have been a touring/recording band for that entire period of time - while they were a TV show for only two of them.

Back to the RRHOF. If you want to have a real litmus test for whether or not they deserve inclusion, put together a complete playlist of every song written by one of the group members and give it a listen. To my ears, that particular songbook stands up well against not just their contemporaries, but is far superior to the vast majority of acts that have been enshrined to date.

Funny thing is... I couldn't care less if they are ever inducted - it means absolutely nothing from my POV - kind of like getting a participation trophy in t-ball.

But... "not a band?" Factually inaccurate. The Monkees are one of the most prolific, enduring bands of the rock 'n' roll era.

William Byron

1/20/2020 02:26:14

Of COURSE you don't care either way- which is why you provided this very long and admittedly well thought out response! :D

But here's where you falter: NEZ doesn't get it?? Wow...

The Monkees can be anything YOU want them to be. That's the point. They're not an organic band. They're a multimedia entity that defies easy category. The RHOF is a very different animal.

Yeah- Nez doesn't get it. If only you, one of the many people who are actually *not* one of The Monkees, could break it down for him!

1/20/2020 12:19:55

William,

I guess part of the point I am trying to make in stating that Nez "doesn't get it" is that his over-thinking of what The Monkees were/were not/are/are not and his, at times, indifference/negative/passive-aggressive attitude to their place in the music world lexicon has, I believe, hurt how they are perceived - dating back to early 1967 and his "expose" in The Saturday Evening Post.

How are they not a band? By any definition I know of, they have checked all of the boxes. And, as far as the RRHOF is concerned, their metrics for enshrinement are inconsistent, at best. So Nez stating that their markers need to change... I just don't see that as the problem. They have no markers - they do what they do.

And... I don't believe that not being one of The Monkees should invalidate an educated opinion that has been built over 40 years of digesting all of their recordings, interviews, appearances, playing their music in various bands, etc.

I have all of the respect in the world for Nez and his accomplishments, but I think he is wrong on this - just as Micky was wrong to continually talk about The Monkees "coming to life" being like "Pinocchio becoming a real boy" or "Leonard Nemoy becoming a Vulkan." They were "real" from the start.

rob

1/25/2020 11:31:33

Great post David!

MonkeesBandFan

2/2/2020 00:21:05

David is spot on.

I like Mike and my overall favorite Monkees song of all time is Girl I Knew Somewhere - the version with Micky;s vocals. That is a band from start to finish (yeah I know Chip played bass) - Mike's songwriting, Micky's great singing, Peter's excellent harpsichord playing and exciting solo, and Davy banging on the tambourine.

The music I've listened to for years, and my kids listen to, but the TV show...

Other than a couple episodes in the first season that have some laughs, I think the TV show - first season - is average at best. I think the second season which is unwatchable. I know Mike thinks its the greatest thing since sliced bread, but boy is it difficult to watch, especially more than once. My kids views mirror this as they lost interest in the series through the first season, but have enjoyed the music and shows. Give me almost any classic Sixties sitcom over the second season of the Monkees.

If there was just a TV show, I would have completely forgotten the Monkees and so would, I would suggest, many others.

Wade

1/20/2020 19:04:26

What is the R&R Hall of Fame? A private organization of self-appointed experts who decided that their opinion matters and who have the money to make you know it. Why should I care about their club or opinions?

I have discovered some of my favorite music on places like bandcamp and youtube...some have a million views, some 200 views. They'll never be considered by the self-important R&R HOF, but their music runs circles around them any day. My opinion is what counts, NOT the Corporation club's opinion.

My point is: stop letting Corporations tell you what music you should listen to. Is that ironic on a Monkees blog? Absolutely. The Monkees were pioneers in a lot of today's corporate music, but being pioneers, they also consisted of amateur bright-eyed and bushy-tailed music and art lovers who broke the same mold that successfully contained and castrated future stars.

Wow, they got Lennon & McCartney in their club? They must be something special and their opinion is now important....except, Lennon & McCartney are also in my club and in the club of hundreds of millions of others. It doesn't validate the club or make them any more important. They threw the dart and it landed on the big mass blob of everyone else's music collection.

Tom

5/7/2020 15:33:15

If the Monkees do not belong then please take KISS out. If you look at where they were at conceptually and what happen after Aucoin got them and hooked them up with a professional stage artist (Sean Delaney) to design their outfits and makeup appearance (not to mention choreograph their entire stage show), nothing you associate with that band, which they were inducted for, actually came from them. If the condemning component is how something started or who contributed to the bulk of a concept, then many artists would have to be thrown out.

Judy Taylor

5/31/2020 05:38:45

How are The Sex Pistols different from The Monkees? How are The Jackson Five different from The Monkees?

Michael Nesmith on The Monkees in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame as 2020 inductees are announced

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